Leece is a Western Australian artist living in Perth, on Whadjuk Nyoongar boodjar. She likes drawing animals and is interested in sf&f, nature and kayaking, Me-Moving and reading and lots of other stuff!
Friday, 6 April 2018
I don't know how it plays, but I think the new map from Z-Man's reissue
of History of the World looks pretty cool.
There is a new edition? I enjoyed the Avalon Hill edition (and was sad when my copy went walkies), but thought the post-Avalon Hill one too abbreviated.
Not sure I like the fact that the army units of different eras are not distinguished. That way you can't crow about that first epoch slinger that survived to the end of the game. Also monuments should be identified by the player that built them, which adds extra incentive to the argument of "I'm just reclaiming my cultural heritage."
Yes, looks like Z-man are gearing up for a reissue. The army units aren't distinguished? Where's the fun in that? I never played the Avalon Hill version, got hold of a Hasbro version and liked it well enough. The Hasbro version didn't allow you to distinguish your monuments from anyone elses.
I get a lot of plays of it in on the gamesbyemail site but it's not really the same as gloating about that one guy in Crete who stuck it out for the entire game.
The army units were not distinguished in the last version either. I was initially disappointed, but the improvement to game play was dramatic. Easily shaves 30-40 minutes off of game time for that alone.
Ulf Bengtsson yes. There were many improvements in it that I suspect won't be in the new edition if it's going back to the AH version.
All three major changes I initially frowned at (as a veteran player who won a couple of Origins tournaments back in the day) but after repeated plays I had to admit improved the game.
The indistinguishable units as noted (although in Brief they were little Roman busts not generic old fashioned pawns)
They also reduced the number of epochs by one, which sped up play significantly and eliminated the "he who gets Great Britain wins" effect.
The other big one was they eliminated the army strength track for determining empire selection order. In Brief it goes strictly by inverse VP. Which eliminated the "he who gets the Romans selects last for the rest of the game" effect.
There were also several minor changes that made a huge improvement that I hope they'll keep. One provides a +1 to your next roll each time you lose in battle. This effectively eliminated the "I lost my entire empire in one battle" effect. A second created overrun (I think they were called) which allowed auto conquering adjacent territories if your roll was good enough, both reducing rolls to speed play and more effectively countering bad luck. A third simply automatically provided all the designated ships without needing to spend armies...cutting down on the decision time while actually increasing the available decisions (by opening up new avenues that you may not have thought were worth losing an army over). And last it started everybody with either a leader or weapons card so you didn't get screwed by random draw making you the only player who never got one of the best cards in the game.
All in all it was a great game play improvement and a good 1-2 hours shorter to play. If I were going to do a reprint, the only thing I'd consider changing back would be finding a way to re-add the final epoch, without re-adding the Britain problem.
There is a fantastic iOS app for it (the simple math based strategy made the AI really tough to beat). Not sure if license changes impact that or not.
Ralph Mazza “The other big one was they eliminated the army strength track for determining empire selection order. In Brief it goes strictly by inverse VP. Which eliminated the "he who gets the Romans selects last for the rest of the game" effect.”
Without having tested it myself I’d say this particular change kills the game for me. That piece of mechanic; how new civ cards are draw and distributed, IS the game. If you remove that you can just make a new game. It’s like remaking Dominion but removing the deck-building. Dang. Now you have me worried about this new version. All other changes you mentioned sound cool to me. But that one... Jeeze...
I had the same thought. But in fact in works better. It's the same mechanic...high player gets first dibs on cards, low player gets first dibs on Empire selection.
It's just high and low player is by points not by army total. It works better because it avoids the double whammy.
So getting Rome is a big deal right. Lots of armies, lots of potential points. In Old Game getting that many armies is going to put you at the bottom of the heap for Empire selection for many turns to come...by design, it's a game balancing mechanism.
But what if the dice screwed you with Rome. You had all those armies...but you didn't get many points out of them...in Old Game you're still picking last...double whammy, screwed on points AND screwed on future Empire selection.
In New Game your Empire selection is based directly on points. So if you did do amazing with Rome...you're picking last...as designed. But your selection of empire reflects how well you actually did (not some benchmark of how well the game assumes Rome should do). Same game balancing mechanic, avoids the double whammy (or its reverse, the lucky double dip) and saves time by having one less thing to track.
It's actually the biggest improvement out of all of them. Much tighter scores between first and last. I'll probably never play it the old way again, no matter which edition.
Ralph Mazza now I’m confused. I’ve always determined first pick of new nations by lowest point score. I’m pretty sure that’s what my rules say (AH version)
Ulf Bengtsson yeah that version was way different. Different way of doing cards, ships. The 2001 version I think is the only one that used Coins...and whatever the extra hidden VP tokens were for "winning" a round. None of the other versions had that.
I didn't remember the 2001 version also changing the way Empires were selected. So, from what you're familiar with, yes, that's how Brief did it too.
Not sure whether Zman is going for the 1991 AH version or the 2001 AH/Hasbro version.
I should point out that the actual rules for this version are on the web site,if you want to avoid speculation. They have a weird siege mechanic (with a cardboard catapult) that I've never seen before. zmangames.com - History of the World
As well you should. Damn fine game. Did you know that yucata.de has Vinci II licensed to play with humans online - with some different maps? I'm leeece there if you ever want a game. They only go up to 5 player but it's still pretty good and the Mare Nostrum map is most enjoyable.
I’ll be honest. As much as I ador my copy of HotW, it rarely gets played due to its 5-6 hour timespan. Cutting it down to 5 epochs might fox that. I just need to make up my mind about how much I WANT it to be long and epic. Maybe I’ll keep this new version as a quick filler. :-)
There is a new edition? I enjoyed the Avalon Hill edition (and was sad when my copy went walkies), but thought the post-Avalon Hill one too abbreviated.
ReplyDeleteNot sure I like the fact that the army units of different eras are not distinguished. That way you can't crow about that first epoch slinger that survived to the end of the game. Also monuments should be identified by the player that built them, which adds extra incentive to the argument of "I'm just reclaiming my cultural heritage."
Yes, looks like Z-man are gearing up for a reissue. The army units aren't distinguished? Where's the fun in that? I never played the Avalon Hill version, got hold of a Hasbro version and liked it well enough. The Hasbro version didn't allow you to distinguish your monuments from anyone elses.
ReplyDeleteI get a lot of plays of it in on the gamesbyemail site but it's not really the same as gloating about that one guy in Crete who stuck it out for the entire game.
Easily one of my top 3 games of all time. Love it. Just hoping they don’t mess it up.
ReplyDeleteI have 3 different editions of this already...who am I kidding
ReplyDeleteThe army units were not distinguished in the last version either. I was initially disappointed, but the improvement to game play was dramatic. Easily shaves 30-40 minutes off of game time for that alone.
ReplyDeleteRalph Mazza I suppose you are talking about the “Brief History of the World”? I never played that one.
ReplyDeleteUlf Bengtsson yes. There were many improvements in it that I suspect won't be in the new edition if it's going back to the AH version.
ReplyDeleteAll three major changes I initially frowned at (as a veteran player who won a couple of Origins tournaments back in the day) but after repeated plays I had to admit improved the game.
The indistinguishable units as noted (although in Brief they were little Roman busts not generic old fashioned pawns)
They also reduced the number of epochs by one, which sped up play significantly and eliminated the "he who gets Great Britain wins" effect.
The other big one was they eliminated the army strength track for determining empire selection order. In Brief it goes strictly by inverse VP. Which eliminated the "he who gets the Romans selects last for the rest of the game" effect.
There were also several minor changes that made a huge improvement that I hope they'll keep. One provides a +1 to your next roll each time you lose in battle. This effectively eliminated the "I lost my entire empire in one battle" effect. A second created overrun (I think they were called) which allowed auto conquering adjacent territories if your roll was good enough, both reducing rolls to speed play and more effectively countering bad luck. A third simply automatically provided all the designated ships without needing to spend armies...cutting down on the decision time while actually increasing the available decisions (by opening up new avenues that you may not have thought were worth losing an army over). And last it started everybody with either a leader or weapons card so you didn't get screwed by random draw making you the only player who never got one of the best cards in the game.
All in all it was a great game play improvement and a good 1-2 hours shorter to play. If I were going to do a reprint, the only thing I'd consider changing back would be finding a way to re-add the final epoch, without re-adding the Britain problem.
There is a fantastic iOS app for it (the simple math based strategy made the AI really tough to beat). Not sure if license changes impact that or not.
Ralph Mazza “The other big one was they eliminated the army strength track for determining empire selection order. In Brief it goes strictly by inverse VP. Which eliminated the "he who gets the Romans selects last for the rest of the game" effect.”
ReplyDeleteWithout having tested it myself I’d say this particular change kills the game for me. That piece of mechanic; how new civ cards are draw and distributed, IS the game. If you remove that you can just make a new game. It’s like remaking Dominion but removing the deck-building. Dang. Now you have me worried about this new version. All other changes you mentioned sound cool to me. But that one... Jeeze...
I had the same thought. But in fact in works better. It's the same mechanic...high player gets first dibs on cards, low player gets first dibs on Empire selection.
ReplyDeleteIt's just high and low player is by points not by army total. It works better because it avoids the double whammy.
So getting Rome is a big deal right. Lots of armies, lots of potential points. In Old Game getting that many armies is going to put you at the bottom of the heap for Empire selection for many turns to come...by design, it's a game balancing mechanism.
But what if the dice screwed you with Rome. You had all those armies...but you didn't get many points out of them...in Old Game you're still picking last...double whammy, screwed on points AND screwed on future Empire selection.
In New Game your Empire selection is based directly on points. So if you did do amazing with Rome...you're picking last...as designed. But your selection of empire reflects how well you actually did (not some benchmark of how well the game assumes Rome should do). Same game balancing mechanic, avoids the double whammy (or its reverse, the lucky double dip) and saves time by having one less thing to track.
It's actually the biggest improvement out of all of them. Much tighter scores between first and last. I'll probably never play it the old way again, no matter which edition.
Ralph Mazza now I’m confused. I’ve always determined first pick of new nations by lowest point score. I’m pretty sure that’s what my rules say (AH version)
ReplyDeleteWell there are about 7 different versions of this game. Is yours the 2001 Hasbro Avalon Hill version with the plastic bits?
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the 1993 version works as I described.
The original 1993 version was based on total unit count.
ReplyDeleteYes that’s the one I play. And scoring is how you measure “last player”.
ReplyDeleteUlf Bengtsson yeah that version was way different. Different way of doing cards, ships. The 2001 version I think is the only one that used Coins...and whatever the extra hidden VP tokens were for "winning" a round. None of the other versions had that.
ReplyDeleteI didn't remember the 2001 version also changing the way Empires were selected. So, from what you're familiar with, yes, that's how Brief did it too.
Not sure whether Zman is going for the 1991 AH version or the 2001 AH/Hasbro version.
I should point out that the actual rules for this version are on the web site,if you want to avoid speculation. They have a weird siege mechanic (with a cardboard catapult) that I've never seen before.
ReplyDeletezmangames.com - History of the World
Poor New Zealand, it made it onto my Hasbro version - the one with the coins, but not this one.
ReplyDeleteHmmm...seems like this new edition should be called Even Briefer History of the World...they reduced all the way down to just 5 epochs...
ReplyDelete5 epochs seems a little short. mutters darkly about Vinci and Small World
ReplyDeleteVinci! I still prefer it to Small World.
ReplyDeleteAs well you should. Damn fine game.
ReplyDeleteDid you know that yucata.de has Vinci II licensed to play with humans online - with some different maps? I'm leeece there if you ever want a game. They only go up to 5 player but it's still pretty good and the Mare Nostrum map is most enjoyable.
I’ll be honest. As much as I ador my copy of HotW, it rarely gets played due to its 5-6 hour timespan. Cutting it down to 5 epochs might fox that. I just need to make up my mind about how much I WANT it to be long and epic. Maybe I’ll keep this new version as a quick filler. :-)
ReplyDelete